Tuesday, November 21, 2006

What's disingenuous

The big news in the sphere today is Romney's attack on McCain that we posted on earlier.

“That’s his position, and in my opinion, it’s disingenuous,” he said. “Look, if somebody says they’re in favor of gay marriage, I respect that view. If someone says — like I do — that I oppose same–sex marriage, I respect that view. But those who try and pretend to have it both ways, I find it to be disingenuous.”

To us in the Cooler it seems like Romney lives in a glass house on this one. While his point that McCain's position is disingenuous has merit, is Romney really the most credible attacker? Here are some of his past statements with regards to marriage.

Mr. Romney yesterday told TV news stations that he would support a Vermont-style civil union law in Massachusetts, but reiterated his support for a constitutional amendment that would clarify that "marriage is an institution between a man and a woman."

- Washington Times, 11/20/2003

In 2002, before the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court declared same-sex marriage protected by the Constitution, Romney denounced as "too extreme" the effort by pro-family groups to enact a preemptive state Marriage Protection Amendment prohibiting homosexual marriage, civil unions and same-sex public employee benefits.

- Boston Phoenix, May 14-20, 2004

Eric Fehrnstrom, a Romney campaign spokesman, said Romney opposes gay marriage but also opposes the amendment, since he sees no reason to change the current laws, which allow for domestic-partner benefits to public employees.

- Boston Globe 3/22/2002

Romney was unaware his family members had signed the amendment petition said Fehrnstrom, and he does not support the "Protection of Marriage" amendment. "He is opposed to gay marriage but in the case of the 'defense of marriage' amendment Mitt believes it goes too far in that it would outlaw domestic partnerships for non-traditional couples. That is something he is not prepared to accept."

-Bay Windows 3/28/02


Honestly there are a litany of other quotes Mitt has made about unions and gay adoption that would reinforce our point.

The criticism of McCain is a fair one. Murphy articulated why very well in the comments below. But it's kind of silly for the criticism to come from the Governor of Massachussetes who has signed over 150 1 day certificates to homosexual couples. It would be like McCain criticizing Romney for flip-flopping on ethanol. The disingenuous attack only works if the candidate is GENUINE.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Romney is a fraud. Period.

12:23 PM  
Blogger murphy said...


"If the question is, 'Do you support gay marriage or civil unions?' I'd say neither...If they said you have to have one or the other, that Massachusetts is going to have one or the other, then I'd rather have civil unions than gay marriage. But I'd rather have neither." -- Mitt Romney

Obviously Romney was trying to make a compromise in order to defend traditional marriage. Romney later changed his mind with respect to the best way of protecting traditional marriage, and now flatly opposes civil unions with no compromise option.

This doesn't strike me as disingenuous. It's just changing tactics (and changing in the right direction, for that matter).

Cooler: While his point that McCain's position is disingenuous has merit, is Romney really the most credible attacker?

Romney has never done what McCain is doing on gay marriage, which is to pretend to support one thing (federalism) when you know it won't work. Romney has all the credibility he needs on this one.

12:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cmon Murphy. Romney is just playing word games. He was the executive of a state that allowed civil unions, gave benefits to same sex couples, he supported gay adoption and now he's saying but I oppose marriage. Well big deal, he supports just about every incentive for gay couples.

That's disingenuous.

12:40 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

Giving some benefits to same sex couples (visitation rights for example) and being opposed to same sex marriage (which would give all benefits) is perfectly fine.

I'm not aware of any time that Romney endorsed gay adoption. He has actually taken executive action to allow Catholic charities to provide adoptions to heterosexual marriages only. Can you provide a source?

It's disingenuous of McCain in this case to give rhetorical aid to a cause while not supporting that same cause in any real way. Romney has done no such thing.

12:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Romney denounced as "too extreme" the effort by pro-family groups to enact a preemptive state Marriage Protection Amendment prohibiting homosexual marriage, civil unions and same-sex public employee benefits."

That's not giving "rhetorical aid?"

12:57 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

anon 12:57,

1. Perhaps he was speaking about barring same-sex public employee benefits as the part being too extreme. I have no idea.

2. You may have missed the part about saying one thing and doing another simultaneously. McCain is giving rhetorical aid to an idea which he knows is impossible from a legal standpoint. Romney's 2003 opposition to the amendment in no way binds him to follow that course after he saw the consequences of an activist State Court gone wild. I wish he had followed his current course in 2003, but you certainly can't fault him for being disingenuous at any time.

1:03 PM  
Blogger Cancer Man said...

Maybe McCain only wants to charge gays $2,000 a piece to marry just like he does illegal aliens to get a green card?

WAR Calling out McCain for Straight Talking out of both sides of his mouth

1:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you think credit crunch affected porn?


12:28 PM  

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