Tuesday, August 22, 2006

Meet my wife, and my other wife, and her too

We found this article from the Salt Lake Tribune with some facts that were new to us at the cooler. We understand that the "mormon" thing should not be an issue in a perfect world, but it is- and this kind of writing is NOT going to help Mitt. (And in the SL Trib of all places, strange).


Romney, of course, didn't mention that about the time The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints renounced polygamy in 1890, his great-grandfather was among those Mormons who fled to Mexico to start their own community where plural marriage continued to be practiced...
Romney is a confirmed monogamist of nearly four decades and polygamy has been absent from his family going back two generations. But, like many Mormons whose pioneer ancestors trekked the Midwest to settle in Utah, Romney's family tree is rife with polygamists on the paternal side. Two great-great grandfathers, for example, had more than 10 wives each.

Criticizing Mitt for his ancestors "sins" would almost never work, but in this case... we at the Cooler are not so sure. Mexico? 10 wives? That's some serious stuff.

42 Comments:

Blogger Max Fischer said...

Maybe Mitt could do a cameo on HBO's hit orginal series "Big Love." Could you imagine Roman Grant & the Juniper Creek crowd with Mitt Romney in their midst talking about the family tree?

9:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure how much the Morman thing hurts, but I certainly don't think it helps.

Has a Morman ever been elected President or even a party's nominee?

10:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As much as the Romney campaign denies it, his religion WILL be an issue in Iowa. Maybe not elsewhere, but it will be here.

10:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman and a woman and a woman."

Mitt Romney is not funny and is not ever getting my vote.

10:23 AM  
Blogger murphy said...

I find it astounding that a candidate's ancestors' marital situation from the 19th century can have a significant impact on his election prospects in the 21st century.

This sort of thing is not going to hurt his standing amongst people who actually support family values, as they know Mitt leads the fight for America's traditional family values.

All this criticism represents is history's most pathetic attempt to dig up skeletons in a politician's closet. Anyone more interested in grown-up policy than in tabloid-spin will move on.

10:55 AM  
Blogger Caucus Cooler said...

No a morman has never been the nominee. Both George Romney and Orrin Hatch explored Presidential bids unsuccessfully though.

The ancestors marital status shouldn't matter, but it certainly shines a light on something that's going to be an issue for Romney.

11:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Romney's "religion" is already a problem for him and 90% of Americans don't even know what Mormons actually believe and what they actually do at Temple yet.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings, Murphy, but America is not ready for a cultist President yet. Or maybe you just have not bothered to investigate Mormonism yourself yet?

12:56 PM  
Blogger Max Fischer said...

Anon 12:56

Your statement throwing around the word "cult" truly disappoints. I am no Romney fan, but really, "cult." I hardly think my LDS neighbors are cultists. Poking fun is one thing, making truly divisive and uninformed accusations (with a twinge of bigotry) is another. Maybe it is you who should investigate LDS.

1:02 PM  
Blogger Jeff Fuller said...

Plenty of Masons have been President. If Mormonism is a cult then so is Masonry. Being a cult member didn't hurt George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman or the dozens of others. The "cult" term is mainly a term used by "mainstream" religious to classify and demean different religions.

People thinking that Romney's Mormonism would negatively impact on his ability as a president should read this link where a Evangelical thinker debunks most of those arguements. A well thought-out and argued piece.

P.S. Most mormons have polygamous roots. My great-great grandfather and his father were a polygamists. If McCain's great-grandfather was a horse theif would this make you think differently of McCain? It all seems silly to me and should be an non-issue.

1:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The similarities you insinuate between Masons and Mormans should go no further than the fact that both start with the same letter.

I am a Mason and I've known many Mormans and I am dissapointed in you Jeff.

2:15 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

Anon 12:56,

America not ready for a cultist president? Well then I suppose you think America IS ready for 15 or so cultist members of the Senate and House? Or is America ready for over 5 million cultist neighbors in its midst? Your theological squabbles with the tenents of the LDS church should bear no influence on the election of public officials.

Consider Abraham Lincoln's Lyceum Address, when he said that America has a political religion and that people who are elected to office subscribe to this political religion, which is to place the oath of office, an oath to abide by a nation of laws and the Constitution, above all others.

This is the only religious test which should be applied to Romney, Huckabee, Giuliani, McCain, or anyone else. If you could point to instances where Romney strayed from his elected commitments as a result of his religion, that would be worth examining. Otherwise, you lack substance.

2:32 PM  
Blogger Caucus Cooler said...

Key word in your sentence is "should" Jeff. We think it "should" be a non-issue to, but polygamy certainly brings out a lot of feelings in people that will affect the way they boat. Stories like this definately do not help Mitt.

2:33 PM  
Blogger Caucus Cooler said...

err. typing too fast.

"to" should be "too" and
"boat" should be "vote"

2:34 PM  
Blogger Kristine said...

Belonging to a religious sect who can claim to be the only religion forced out the borders of the US at gunpoint and sent into the wilderness to seek religious refuge is an interesting experience.

Back then my ancestors were shot for being Mormon, now I'm just called a member of a cult -- comparatively I can live with that falsehood! I remember bing in HS and being told that Missouri should have exterminated us all in the first place. So I'm not suprised at all this drama drama.

I, like Jeff, have polygamous ancestors. The sheer outnumbering of women and children to men among Mormons fleeing West almost necessitated polygamy. The society would likely have quickly died off in the wilderness without it. Women could not work or vote or own land, etc. It is so much of a non-issue today in today's society.

p.s. In Salt Lake, for your pro-Mormon slanted news, read the Deseret News. For your anti-Mormon slanted news, read the SL Tribune.

2:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We really live in a strange country where a candidate's devotion and religious commitment is viewed as a bigger stumbling block than immorality or dishonesty would be. It seems that we want a candidate who 'believes' but is not devoted.

2:42 PM  
Blogger Feces Hurling Monkey said...

Fact check:

Mitt Romney has had only one wife.

John McCain has had two.

2:49 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

Romney: 1 wife
Huckabee: 1 wife
Brownback: 1 wife
Allen: 2 wives
McCain: 2 wives
Giuliani: 3 wives
Gingrich: 3 wives

We live in a strange society where it's more acceptable to point to the indiscretions of a candidate's 19th century ancestors than point to the indiscretions of the candidate himself.

3:05 PM  
Blogger Feces Hurling Monkey said...

Oh, and Rudy has had multiple wives, too, as long as we're counting.

BOO-YAH!

3:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kristine did you just condone polygamy? It's views like that that will sink Romney's campaign. I agree with the Cooler. It shouldn't be an issue, but it is. Think what you want, but it's an issue. Especially in Iowa.

3:06 PM  
Anonymous you are a monkey said...

Fact check:

Mitt Romney is pro-choice

John McCain is pro-life

3:07 PM  
Blogger Feces Hurling Monkey said...

murphy is too quick for the monkey. monkey will have to sharpen up.

3:07 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

Feces Hurling,

Perhaps you need a faster reload! :)

Anon 3:06,

Kristine did not in any way condone present day polygamy. She merely pointed out that it helped a society in the wilderness with very few men to survive.

3:15 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

You are a monkey,

If Romney is pro-choice, why has he ruled pro-life on every legislation that comes to his desk? Why has he called for RvW to be overturned?

If McCain is pro-life, why did he promise Californians in 2000 that he would not seek to have RvW overturned?

3:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the Boston Globe:

"We honestly don't know where he stands on this issue," said Marie Sturgis, executive director and legislative director for Massachusetts Citizens for Life.

When he ran for US Senate in liberal-leaning Massachusetts in 1994, Romney said abortion should be "safe and legal." As a candidate for governor in 2002, he said he would keep the state's abortion rights laws intact and has since said that he kept that promise.

3:30 PM  
Blogger Burton Rider said...

I can't believe the robots are on the abortion thing again.

Mitt Romney is pro-life. Period.

When he ran in 2002, he said he wouldn't change the laws of Massachusetts, but then he opposed the lowering of the age of consent, took a pro-life position on stem-cell, became a national leader on defending marriage.

Get over it. You can't win by name-calling. You can dig out articles from 1994 and 1894 all you want, but it doesn't change anything. I can do the same thing against any other Republican running.

Let's debate what they are for. Nobody is better on the budget than Mitt Romney. Nobody is better on marriage than Mitt Romney. Nobody has better private sector experience than Mitt Romney. And among the Governors (which is, by the way, from whence we elect our Presidents, not the Senate), Mitt Romney stands out as a remarkable leader who gets things done even under the most difficult political circumstances.

3:57 PM  
Blogger Kristine said...

Anon 3:06-Did I condone polygamy? Um, no. Just ask my man how fast I would be out the door with another lady-friend around.

When you are a descendant from such roots, you gotta try to understand where they came from.

4:01 PM  
Blogger Caucus Cooler said...

Kristine, thanks for the insight on the Utah papers. We have done a little reading on the websites and chatting with the papers and are going to do a little update on it later.
CC

4:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Burton- Who are you to call someone a "robot"? Who pays your paycheck? I think a disclosure on your comments is in order.

4:16 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

Anon 4:16,

Funny comment coming from an Anon. How many posts in this section have been yours?

4:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

David Rider, oh wait, I mean Burton Kotchel, oh wait, I mean Burton Rider:

If Romney is so conservative, how did he get elected Gov in MA? I'm betting he had to pull the wool over many people's eyes then and I'm betting he is going to try to pull the wool over the nation's eyes to become President.

How are we supposed to trust Romney, and more importantly how are we supposed to trust you? - Maybe you should disclose your employment.

4:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many of our ancestors owned slaves. We should get on those restitution payments immediately!

4:56 PM  
Blogger Burton Rider said...

anon 4:16. It's a blog, get a life. I call 'em like I see 'em, as would you. And I sign my own paycheck as the co-owner of a six-person marketing and public affairs company.

anon 4:31. It's spelled Kochel. And again, I sign my own paycheck thanks to good and loyal clients. And no, it's really not important to me that you trust me, I honestly don't care. I just get a little tired of the slam-fest. Governor Romney can speak for himself on these things, certainly much better than I.

Oh, and by the way, in full disclosure, I receive no consulting fee from Governor Romney nor from his PAC, unlike many of my counterparts in other campaigns. He was a client in 2002 in Massachusetts during his campaign for Governor, and I help now because I want to.

Any more questions?

5:17 PM  
Blogger Burton Rider said...

P.S. WAR Murphy

5:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No additional questions, just my initial question:

If Romney is so conservative, how did he get elected Gov in MA?

5:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BR-
So are you saying that your company does not show up on any of Romney's PAC disclosure reports?

5:50 PM  
Blogger Caucus Cooler said...

War BR- We always like your insight in the Cooler. At least somebody is an adult in the blogosphere.

6:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yawn...non-issue....

6:30 PM  
Blogger murphy said...

Anon 5:41,

Check out this site for the story on how Romney got elected in MA despite his conservatism:

http://www.thecommonwealthpac.com/romney/

WAR br

6:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The holy underwear is weirder to me than the multiple wives.

7:03 PM  
Blogger Burton Rider said...

I show up on a disclosures for printing brochures, letterhead, etc., which is (a small) part of what we do. However, as I said before, I recieve no fee from the PAC. If I did I'd have no problem saying it. I was proud to work for the Gov in Mass and I'm proud to help him now.


As for how he won in Mass: The election came down to a choice between a grown up with real world experience who could solve problems, take on a budget crisis, and fight the Beacon Hill crowd which is so rife with patronization and nepotism as to make CIETC look tame and a product of the liberal Democratic machine in Boston who wanted to lower the age of consent, raise taxes, and spend more money.

Even Massachusetts will make the right decision in that case.

7:52 AM  
Blogger Burton Rider said...

Oh, almost forgot: WAR Cooler Staff

8:18 AM  
Blogger smartchick2008 said...

Wow. I've been on vacation for a couple of weeks. It seems like I've missed... not much. It's the same tired arguments to which I'll make my same comments (even I'm getting tired of myself):

1. Romney has admitted that he has had a change of heart when it comes to life issues.

2. If someone admits that they have changed, it's not sneaky, nor is it a "policy nuance" as some have suggested. If you want to know the difference try and sort out McCain's position on the marriage amendment. It's almost Kerry-esque with the "I'm voting against it, but I'm really for it."

3. Since Romney has been Governor of one of the most liberal states in the country, he has GOVERNED as a pro-life Governor. People can make as many accusations as they want, but a record is a record is a record.

3. As a Member of the pro-life community, I welcome anyone who wants to join our ranks. The only way we are going to win on this issue is if we GROW our ranks. We cannot do this if we are so closed minded as to not welcome converts. If someone says they are converting to Christianity, do we not welcome that person? Or do we shun them because they didn't believe before?

4. I take Romney at his word and until he does something that makes me question it, I welcome him to our ranks.

9:53 AM  

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